My Christian friend from a southern state sat there at the pizza buffet and relayed the story of his former pastor from years gone by. The pastor had been involved in an improper relationship with a teenage girl, but nobody had found him out. A few years later, the now adult girl brought these things to light. To make a long story short, my friend's pastor eventually resigned that church and shortly picked up in another pastorate hundreds of miles away.
In trying to make sense of the way the pastor handled the situation before resigning, my friend said, "He seemed more sorry that he got caught." In other words, the pastor did not seem truly repentant to my friend, although he did seem so to the church as a whole.
Another Christian friend tells the story of a man in a prior church having an affair with his wife's best friend, who then gave birth to his baby. Repentance was expressed verbally, but then the man was shunned by most of the church. My friend believed the pair were truly repentant, although the church as a whole did not. Then it came to light that their affair continued even after it was found out.
In these two examples, some believed the offenders were repentant and some did not.
These two examples and a recent situation of my own have me asking the question: What criteria do we use to determine whether a brother (or sister) who has been "overtaken in a fault" (Galatians 6:1) is repentant or not? When do we draw the line? How long do we keep them at arm's length, or when do we cut them off completely, or when do we embrace them back into fellowship? What are we looking to see in them, or not see, in order to make the determination?
As in all things, our answer has to come from applying the Word of God to the situation at hand.
One verse comes immediately to mind regarding the first situation above, the pastor who was exposed in a wrong relationship with a teen girl. "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death" - II Corinthians 7:10.
We see in this verse that there are two kinds of sorrow: "godly sorrow" (or literally "sorrow in accord with God") and "the sorrow of the world." Godly sorrow is that which produces "repentance" - a literal change of mind. This changed mind now agrees with God about the horrible nature of sin (in general or in particular), about one's guilt, about the just consequences of sin, and about the steps necessary to make things right. We see this godly sorrow in Zacchaeus (Luke 19:1-10), Saul of Tarsus (Paul; Acts 9; I Timothy 1:15), King David (II Samuel 12; Psalm 51) and others throughout the scripture.
The sorrow of the world, on the other hand, is sorrow that one got caught, denial of the justness of sin's consequences, and no commitment to change.
Now in the first case, my friend stated that his pastor "seemed like he was more sorry he got caught." I will stop right there and say that we should be VERY hesitant to think we know what someone is feeling - to judge their inner thoughts, assume their motivations and so forth. We cannot base our acceptance of someone's repentance on what we think they are thinking.
We are WAY too quick to look at how someone carries their self or their countenance and to think we know what is going on inside. People don't wear sackcloth and ashes anymore, and they don't have to walk around stoop shouldered and sour mouthed for a "grieving period" after they repent. To judge repentance based on how somebody seems in their appearance or demeanor is foolish. If they have confessed to God and secured cleansing, which takes place instantly and in secret, they ought to be joyful from that moment on. But some people will see the smile of the forgiven, or the hopefulness of the one who is back on track and moving forward, and they will make a false judgement that the brother is not repentant. How utterly foolish.
We need to be careful. And I am speaking as one who has been on both sides of that problem. But I will talk more about that when we discuss my own recent experience.
So apart from how the pastor "seemed" in his demeanor and appearance, there has to be a more objective and biblical set of criteria to figure out if he has godly sorrow (of true repentance) or worldly sorrow. Let's look at it more closely, putting aside our subjective assessment of "how he acts" and sticking with facts of what he actually says or does.
The following can apply to any situation, and we will apply it to this one.
1) How long did it take him to admit wrongdoing? As soon as he was confronted? Or only after the evidence was presented? Or only after some threat, like public exposure or legal action? Or still not even then? In my friend's pastor's case, he fessed up right away upon being confronted. So he gets a passing grade there. Of course it would have been better for him to have dealt with his sin years earlier when it happened, but he took the David route and admitted it when told "Thou art the man."
2) Did he come completely clean or only admit what could be proven? In the case at hand, as far as anybody else knows, he fessed up entirely. So far there is not enough to indict him for being unrepentant.
3) Did he accept the consequences of his actions? There are consequences for sin. The biggest factor in determining repentance is how the erring brother views the consequences. Remember that repentance means a change of mind to agree with God. Does he agree with God not only about the wrongness of his sin, but does he also agree with God's judgment on his sin? Zacchaeus agreed with God's law about his theft and he gladly made restitution according to the law. David agreed with God taking his infant son and he went and worshipped after God took the child. These men had their minds changed by godly sorrow that worked repentance.
Unfortunately there were people on the biblical scene then who were more concerned with appearances. David's servants questioned him when he arose and washed. "Shouldn't he be mourning?" The crowd around Zacchaeus' house no doubt also had its naysayers when old Zach made his confession. "He didn't seem sincere!" We are so prone to this! We need to stick with facts, not "seem so" evidence.
In the case at hand, the consequences are clear. The pastor is no longer "blameless" in his marriage and no longer has "a good testimony to them who are without" (unsaved world). He is disqualified from pastoring... in my opinion, ever again. You might argue the "ever" but you can agree that right then he was not qualified. (There had been no state or federal laws broken - the improper relationship didn't cross that line, so there were no legal consequences).
What did the man do? At first he had the church vote whether he should resign. They voted to keep him (not a shock in some types of churches, unfortunately). Later he finally did resign and went to be the pastor of another church. Now we are no longer talking about "how he seemed" but about what he did. And what he did was to NOT accept the proper consequences of his sin, which would have been removal from vocational ministry, at least for a time if not permanantly.
In the first example case, I conclude that the pastor was not repentant, the church wrongly believed he was repentant, and my friend was right about him but based on the wrong evidence: how the man "seemed." In other words, nobody was fully right in this situation.
Now let's apply these same questions of factual evidence to the second situation, the one with the baby involved.
1) How long did it take to admit wrongdoing? In the second case, it was only after there was proof of wrongdoing that could not be denied. I understand the baby was the spit and image of his illegitimate father and looked nothing like his mother's husband, and that's finally when the jig was up. Not when she became pregnant; not when the baby was born; not when there were a few rumors; only when it was very clear and undeniable. Strike one on the repentant meter.
2) Did he come completely clean? No. A vague church announcement was made about each of the families involved, almost as if there were two separate and unconnected situations. This was a public sin but there was no public confession. Strike two for him, but this was how the church leaders chose to handle it.
3) Did he accept the consequences? No. He continued secretly in sin after claiming repentance, and made the consequences even worse, eventually splitting up two marriages where the scorned spouses had been initially willing to reconcile. Strike three. But again the church bears some blame for not setting up some kind of accountability.
In this case I conclude the man was unrepentant, the church was right about him but jumped to that conclusion sooner than the facts warranted, and my friend was wrong about the man. So just as in the first example, nobody was fully correct.
In two example cases we have seen unrepentant men judged incorrectly by those Christians around them. Doesn't it make you also wonder how many times brothers and sisters are likewise misjudged when they are truly repentant? If the reprobate is misjudged and continues in fellowship, how often is the repentant also misunderstood and shunned by those who should be helping to restore him? It happens more often than we would prefer to admit.
In a future post, I hope to explore some biblical solutions and preventions for both of these problems. I will also offer up some related lessons I would like to learn from a situation I went through last year.
Repentant? Or reprobate? Restore the brother or reject him? Be careful to make the right choice. We are dealing with people's lives and hearts and families. We are dealing with people for whom Jesus died.
VM
PS - If you may be aware of one of the examples I gave and think I got some details wrong, remember that I know lots of people with lots of stories and I may not be talking about the one you're thinking about. That being said, I have been working on this series of posts for almost a year so I could have mixed up minor details, for which I apologize if so.
Saturday, May 18, 2013
Sunday, May 12, 2013
Tonsillitis, et cetera
Here are some various updates in our lives recently.
First, I think I have tonsillitis. I have had painful swallowing since about Tuesday evening or so. It doesn't feel like strep, and I am an expert on how strep feels. I have no fever or other symptoms. So I am going to have to put my doctor search in high gear here in this strange city. Pray, watch for an update here, and send me your favorite ice cream tonsillectomy recovery recipes.
This past Wednesday night we joined the membership of Old Paths Baptist Church. Our pastor is Edward R. Mast, a forceful and practical Bible expositor. We love him and his family, along with all the others at OPBC. The church is experiencing a growth phase lately, both numerically and spiritually. We are praying for God to put our family to work fruitfully in this body.
We have received several answers to prayer lately, and quite soon after praying. It is like God is showing us He still answers prayer and He still loves to work in our lives.
For example, I finally decided to go to the doctor about the odd lump on my head, because it started getting painful. So I began praying about it one night and when I woke up in the morning it had popped like a blister and drained. This is after 15 months of it just sitting there like a bump on a log...literally in my case, my skull being the hollow or rotten log! The bump later came up again, filling with more fluid, but at least now I know it is just fluid and not something worse. Don't worry, I will still show it to the doctor. I am just overwhelmed with God's care, calming my concern about this immediately after I prayed.
Our lawn mowing solution wasn't getting the job done on our yard's steep hills. I tried an old fashioned non-power push/reel mower because it was very light weight. But the ground is too uneven for that. I spent all evening Monday and Tuesday trying to get the grass cut, but just frustrating myself. These hills are steeper than they look. They are the steepest hills I have ever tried to mow, and I spent many summers of my youth pushing a mower around the neighborhood for cash. The neighbors here told me they wear football cleats to mow the hill. It is so difficult, I prayed that there was a better way than anything we thought up.
So I went to church Wednesday night prepared to ask a prayer request for God to show us a better solution. We had considered several options, such as just planting flowers (expensive!) and even a hovercraft mower. Yes, they really make such a thing; wouldn't that be cool? Anyway, as soon as I walked in the church door, before I said anything about mowing, the pastor offered me a walk behind, self propelled mower for free. It is a four cycle engine with a pressurized pump oil filter designed to run smoothly on hills without losing oil pressure. It is exactly the solution we needed but didn't know existed. The self propel removes the weight problem and the engine style removes all other problems. God answered this prayer before we got around to much asking!
In other news, I have to apply for a federal security clearance for a certain function of my new job. If you are a relative or if I have known you more than seven years and we still keep in touch (all two of you), you might expect a call from the FBI. I apologize in advance for the hassle.
Please don't tell them about that one time when we were 14 and we pulled all that crazy stuff that night at that secret meeting (so called "meeting" anyway) over by your cousin's house. That all started out as your idea in the first place, and your goofball cousin too. So I don't know why you keep bringing it up like it was all my fault. Anyway, those guys from that secret meeting (so-called "meeting" anyway) probably forgot about us by now and aren't still looking for us (I hope!). And I've said it before: Dude, I am sorry about your aunt's Corvette. Yes that was a sweet ride, but after all, she still won the court case since those guys from the meeting (so called "meeting" anyway) didn't show up to the hearing. So just play it cool when the FBI calls.
Seriously, if they call just tell them what you know. That I am an exceedingly wicked sinner, saved by the grace of God, and trying to die to Christ daily and yield up to Him all my rascal ways. I know you could tell more than that. Probably a lot more. A lot more could be told about all of us, and it will certainly all be told in That Day. But today, what else really matters more than that?
VM
Friday, March 22, 2013
St. Louis BBQ Unimpressive to KC Native
So, here we are in St. Louis for my wife's birthday party with her extended family. I get persuaded to try a famous BBQ restaurant that was featured on a television show called "Man vs. Food." Only it doesn't take too much persuading because there is NO BBQ, good or bad, in our new home of Dubuque (or decent Mexican or Chinese). So I overcame my hesitancy to eat BBQ outside of Kansas City simply because I was IN NEED.
The line of people waiting at Pappy's Smokehouse was about 300 feet long, though moving steadily. I figured it must be good.
The result? I am still convinced, and maybe now even more strongly, that the quality of BBQ has an inverse relationship with the distance from Kansas City. And St. Louis is quite a distance.
So just like I have always maintained, don't bother with BBQ anywhere east of Biffle's BBQ in Concordia, MO, or anywhere west of Topeka or even Lawrence, or south of Bates City, MO or Stillwell, KS, or north of Smithville, MO. Just don't even bother, okay?
The quality of the BBQ has an inverse relationship with the distance from Kansas City. If you keep that in mind, you will never be disappointed in that regard.
VM
Monday, March 18, 2013
Dubuque Update
I had said that I would use this blog for status updates for our loved ones, since we don't do the Facebook thingy. So here goes. Here is a status update. And since a lot of people seem to ask the same questions, I will use this status update for frequent questions. I hope to post more pictures after we get a bit more settled in.
Q: How is Dubuque?
A: Cold. The weather here is on average about 15 degrees cooler than KC every day. As I write this today (March 18, two days before the Spring Equinox), we just received about 2 inches of fluffy snow. The north facing slopes still had snow from the last few snow storms, so this was snow on top of snow in some areas.
The cooler weather will be nice in the summer. And I am not complaining about the winter. It actually reminds me of what winters were like when I was younger. Also the street department here is very good about keeping the roads clear. We live on a "side street" and not a main thoroughfare, but there are usually plow trucks going down our street within an hour of the start of snow, and they come by regularly as the storm progresses. Our brick and stone house is warm, cozy and completely free of drafts as well.
The city is very small and very easy to find your way around once you get used to a few main streets. We are finding the shortcuts as well as the scenic routes. The shopping districts are close and everything we could ever need is within a few minutes' drive.
The people in the city are very nice. Most are very devout Roman Catholics, attending mass weekly or even daily. Catholics are generally hard to witness to but maybe these being nice upper Midwesterners may make them a little more open.
We have lived here six weeks as of tomorrow, by the way.
Q: How do you like your new job?
A: It is great so far (after five weeks today), but I still haven't done any of the real work for which I was hired. I am still training, not on technical things but more on company policies, procedures and the like. The atmosphere is professional for the most part and the people in my department are extremely friendly and ready to take me in and help me out. The managers are great. The culture is quite different than other large corporations but I can manage to fit in. I am certainly blessed to be earning more than I ever have before and I praise the Lord to be now more disciplined and diligent about how I manage this stewardship. I have been through Paul's school of money management:
Q: Have you gotten everything unpacked, put away, arranged, etc, yet?
A: Of course not. The last time we moved was sixteen and a half years ago, with no kids and few belongings. We rented a medium sized moving truck, loaded it up with room to spare and drove 18 blocks from 14th & Orv---- Avenue to 32nd & Orv---- Avenue. This time was quite different. We made two 400 mile trips with the largest truck possible and still sent a lot to the trash or to donations. I remember what Jacob said on his return to Canaan, 20 years after leaving with the clothes on his back:
I am not worthy but I am so glad to be this blessed.
One thing that is delaying our unpacking and arranging is the constant repair and maintenance -- not on our new house, but on our old stuff. For example, tonight I just fixed our old freezer. Somehow in the move, the power cable got crimped and shorted out. We had finally gotten started on arranging the basement and plugged in the freezer on Saturday, but it still was not cold today. So after I got off work and we had supper, it took me two hours to troubleshoot and another hour to fix and now it is bed time. So I didn't get around to doing anything else on my list tonight. Some other evening I need to hook up our icemaker. And some other time I need to get a part for the dishwasher that was lost in the move. So the list stays long and the nights and weekends stay busy. This is in addition to trying to have some kind of social life with church friends, family time and such.
I do like the blessing of being busy and seeing the result of my work, even if it is just fixing something that used to work before.
Q: How are the churches there?
A: There are five churches in town that, based on their name alone, we might have tried. After looking over church web sites, we found that one of these five seems to be leaning contemporary and is using a less accurate Bible version. Another we also determined not to visit after I looked over their web site and saw a strong leaning toward the man-centered cultishness represented by the Hyles-Anderson crowd. Another we visited once and found a very nice pastor and people, but I suspected that he was a Baptist Brider, which he confirmed when he visited our home. A fourth church we will probably not visit based on the church's well known history and testimony of contentiousness, strife and pride. So we have landed for now into the only remaining option in the city. I don't want to sound like we "settled" out of desparation though, because this seems to be a church with great preaching and very humble and kind people anyway. Without any of the issues of the other churches, we probably would have ended up where we now are.
We have not yet joined this church and it will be a while before we do just because I want to be careful. But I have no reason at this point to think that we won't eventually join.
Q: Do you still like your new house?
A: We still *LOVE* it. When I helped make the bed with clean sheets just a few minutes ago, my wife said, "It's even easier to make the bed in this house!" We find things all the time to comment on and praise the Lord for.
Q: What's with the poetry on the blog? Are you really that lonely / angry / happy / sad / whatever?
A: No, I am not. I am very content with my situation and my emotions are stable and healthy. Our marriage has been extremely rewarding for quite some time, especially as we drew closer together in the midst of much surrounding turmoil over the past year. I am making friends, growing in Christ, trusting God daily and looking for that Blessed Hope, Titus 2:13.
So my poetry is not necessarily an exposition of my current state of mind. I can write based on what I have experienced in the past as well as the present, or even based on feelings that others have expressed to me. I can even write, and often do, from the standpoint of what I *might* be feeling, or what I might be *tempted* to feel, if I were to let my flesh go there. My poetry may express the victory that I have in Christ, or it may express the potential defeat I can point to and say, "There but for the grace of God go I."
So, as I wrote in one recent poem, "Don't try so hard to get inside my head." Many of the problems we went through in the past year were complicated and made worse by people trying to do exactly that. I try hard to be as transparent as I can be, but I am still a very complex individual that only about five people understand very well. I am grateful that one of those is my wife. And I am thankful that the One Who made me understands me perfectly, AMEN!
Q: What are you doing about the ministry?
A: I am doing the same thing I did while I was the pastor of a church, and before, and since; the same thing every Christian ought to be doing: serving the Lord as He allows and leads, in whatever capacity I am able. I do not know what the future holds, but I know Who holds the future and I am content to leave the matter in His hands and follow His leading. There is much I don't know, but I do know this:
VM
Q: How is Dubuque?
A: Cold. The weather here is on average about 15 degrees cooler than KC every day. As I write this today (March 18, two days before the Spring Equinox), we just received about 2 inches of fluffy snow. The north facing slopes still had snow from the last few snow storms, so this was snow on top of snow in some areas.
The cooler weather will be nice in the summer. And I am not complaining about the winter. It actually reminds me of what winters were like when I was younger. Also the street department here is very good about keeping the roads clear. We live on a "side street" and not a main thoroughfare, but there are usually plow trucks going down our street within an hour of the start of snow, and they come by regularly as the storm progresses. Our brick and stone house is warm, cozy and completely free of drafts as well.
The city is very small and very easy to find your way around once you get used to a few main streets. We are finding the shortcuts as well as the scenic routes. The shopping districts are close and everything we could ever need is within a few minutes' drive.
The people in the city are very nice. Most are very devout Roman Catholics, attending mass weekly or even daily. Catholics are generally hard to witness to but maybe these being nice upper Midwesterners may make them a little more open.
We have lived here six weeks as of tomorrow, by the way.
Q: How do you like your new job?
A: It is great so far (after five weeks today), but I still haven't done any of the real work for which I was hired. I am still training, not on technical things but more on company policies, procedures and the like. The atmosphere is professional for the most part and the people in my department are extremely friendly and ready to take me in and help me out. The managers are great. The culture is quite different than other large corporations but I can manage to fit in. I am certainly blessed to be earning more than I ever have before and I praise the Lord to be now more disciplined and diligent about how I manage this stewardship. I have been through Paul's school of money management:
I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. - Philippians 4:12-13.
Q: Have you gotten everything unpacked, put away, arranged, etc, yet?
A: Of course not. The last time we moved was sixteen and a half years ago, with no kids and few belongings. We rented a medium sized moving truck, loaded it up with room to spare and drove 18 blocks from 14th & Orv---- Avenue to 32nd & Orv---- Avenue. This time was quite different. We made two 400 mile trips with the largest truck possible and still sent a lot to the trash or to donations. I remember what Jacob said on his return to Canaan, 20 years after leaving with the clothes on his back:
I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which thou hast shewed unto thy servant; for with my staff I passed over this Jordan; and now I am become two bands. - Genesis 32:10.
I am not worthy but I am so glad to be this blessed.
One thing that is delaying our unpacking and arranging is the constant repair and maintenance -- not on our new house, but on our old stuff. For example, tonight I just fixed our old freezer. Somehow in the move, the power cable got crimped and shorted out. We had finally gotten started on arranging the basement and plugged in the freezer on Saturday, but it still was not cold today. So after I got off work and we had supper, it took me two hours to troubleshoot and another hour to fix and now it is bed time. So I didn't get around to doing anything else on my list tonight. Some other evening I need to hook up our icemaker. And some other time I need to get a part for the dishwasher that was lost in the move. So the list stays long and the nights and weekends stay busy. This is in addition to trying to have some kind of social life with church friends, family time and such.
I do like the blessing of being busy and seeing the result of my work, even if it is just fixing something that used to work before.
Q: How are the churches there?
A: There are five churches in town that, based on their name alone, we might have tried. After looking over church web sites, we found that one of these five seems to be leaning contemporary and is using a less accurate Bible version. Another we also determined not to visit after I looked over their web site and saw a strong leaning toward the man-centered cultishness represented by the Hyles-Anderson crowd. Another we visited once and found a very nice pastor and people, but I suspected that he was a Baptist Brider, which he confirmed when he visited our home. A fourth church we will probably not visit based on the church's well known history and testimony of contentiousness, strife and pride. So we have landed for now into the only remaining option in the city. I don't want to sound like we "settled" out of desparation though, because this seems to be a church with great preaching and very humble and kind people anyway. Without any of the issues of the other churches, we probably would have ended up where we now are.
We have not yet joined this church and it will be a while before we do just because I want to be careful. But I have no reason at this point to think that we won't eventually join.
Q: Do you still like your new house?
A: We still *LOVE* it. When I helped make the bed with clean sheets just a few minutes ago, my wife said, "It's even easier to make the bed in this house!" We find things all the time to comment on and praise the Lord for.
Q: What's with the poetry on the blog? Are you really that lonely / angry / happy / sad / whatever?
A: No, I am not. I am very content with my situation and my emotions are stable and healthy. Our marriage has been extremely rewarding for quite some time, especially as we drew closer together in the midst of much surrounding turmoil over the past year. I am making friends, growing in Christ, trusting God daily and looking for that Blessed Hope, Titus 2:13.
So my poetry is not necessarily an exposition of my current state of mind. I can write based on what I have experienced in the past as well as the present, or even based on feelings that others have expressed to me. I can even write, and often do, from the standpoint of what I *might* be feeling, or what I might be *tempted* to feel, if I were to let my flesh go there. My poetry may express the victory that I have in Christ, or it may express the potential defeat I can point to and say, "There but for the grace of God go I."
So, as I wrote in one recent poem, "Don't try so hard to get inside my head." Many of the problems we went through in the past year were complicated and made worse by people trying to do exactly that. I try hard to be as transparent as I can be, but I am still a very complex individual that only about five people understand very well. I am grateful that one of those is my wife. And I am thankful that the One Who made me understands me perfectly, AMEN!
Q: What are you doing about the ministry?
A: I am doing the same thing I did while I was the pastor of a church, and before, and since; the same thing every Christian ought to be doing: serving the Lord as He allows and leads, in whatever capacity I am able. I do not know what the future holds, but I know Who holds the future and I am content to leave the matter in His hands and follow His leading. There is much I don't know, but I do know this:
For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! - I Corinthians 9:16
VM
Monday, March 11, 2013
Islands of Snow
It's early March and now, wherever I go,
I find little, lonely, stranded islands of snow.
The sun came out, you see,
And cut them off (like me).
With no friends left behind that they know,
They're little, lonely, stranded islands of snow.
They saw their danger and they hid so well.
Around a wall, beneath a tree, behind a hill.
But their friends remained behind,
Or maybe on the front lines.
So were these hidden the cowardly, or wise? I don't know.
But now they're little, lonely, stranded islands of snow.
They must be so lonely. That's easy to see.
They've been weeks without contact. They remind me of me.
They reach out but find silence.
They're almost tempted to violence.
What was it that caused all their fellows to go?
Who will answer their questions? For I'd like to know.
What's the reason they're little, lonely, stranded islands of snow?
I think I finally understand their woe.
This is just the natural process flow.
Some friends conspired.
Some just grew tired.
It happens in cycles; the same wherever you go.
Sooner or later, we are all little, lonely, stranded islands of snow.
Victor Mowery
Monday, March 11, 2013.
Tuesday, January 29, 2013
Heaven, Hell, Soul Sleep or Judgment?
I love to answer Bible questions. I always have and that has not changed, despite what else may be changing in my life. It is also one rewarding way I can minister to others during this season of my life. I received the following e-mail from a friend and I would like to answer it here for the benefit of other friends.
Unfortunately there is a lot of false teaching on this subject. Many cult groups (Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Armstrongism), as well as many old school Pentecostals, teach the doctrine of "soul sleep." This is the false idea that upon death, both the righteous and the wicked enter a state of unconscious rest, the soul "sleeping" with the body in the grave, awaiting the final judgment at the end of all things. Most of these groups also teach "Annihilationism", the idea that in the final judgment, the wicked will be quickly consumed and cease all existence ("annihilated"). Thus, they have removed hell entirely from their doctrine, either after death or after Judgment Day. They have completely ignored what the Bible has to say about punishment for the wicked in the afterlife.
If you want to confuse the next JW at your door, you can call him or her a "Psychopannychist." It sounds like somebody who is almost psychotically panicking about something, which is an apt description of JW people. But psychopannychism is just the technical term for the doctrine of "soul sleep." That doesn't help answer your question, that is just for extra credit points.
This false doctrine, like many, comes when someone interprets literally what the Bible is saying in metaphore - referring to death as "sleep" in various verses. On the flip side of the coin, other false doctrines come when people interpret metaphorically what the Bible is saying literally. To avoid either error, a good rule of thumb to follow in Bible interpretation is, "When plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense (or end up with nonsense)." This just means that the Bible is to be taken literally unless it is clearly speaking symbolically based on the context. When Paul talks about departed Christians and the Rapture in places like I Corinthians 15 and I Thessalonians 4, the word "sleep" is symbolic of death and does not mean a literal sleep for the soul but is speaking of the empty body awaiting resurrection. It is clear in the passages that he uses the word symbolically and not literally.
Having said all that about false doctrine, let's start with some basics about Heaven and Hell. First of all, there are three heavens mentioned in the Bible. The first heaven is the atmosphere of the earth, also called the "firmament" in Genesis 1. This is the place where the "fowl of the heaven" fly. The second heaven is outer space, where the sun, moon and stars and all the "host of heaven" are. The third heaven is the dwelling place of God. Paul referred to it this way:
This third heaven is where a believer dying today will immediately go, "out of the body." Their spirit will be "with the Lord" as the verse you alluded to mentions, II Corinthians 5:8. "The Lord" is of course the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is seated at the right hand of God the Father in Heaven. So the believer's spirit will be received into heaven immediately upon physical death.
What about their judgment? Believers in Christ will never be judged for their sins. That judgment has already been meted out upon Christ when He hung on the cross in their place. Instead, believers will face the Judgment Seat of Christ to receive reward (or loss of reward) for their labors for Christ after their salvation. This judgment takes place sometime after the Rapture, when the believer's spirit and body have been reunited in resurrection.
Let's look at a quick timeline of events for someone in Christ who dies today. 1) Their spirit will depart from their body and go to heaven. 2) When Christ comes to the clouds in the Rapture, He will bring the spirits of departed Christians from heaven with Him. Their bodies will arise from the graves (though now glorified, resurrected bodies) and be rejoined to their spirits in the air. This is explained in I Thessalonians 4:13-18, where a key element is found in verse 14: "even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." Their bodies - and only their bodies - are "asleep." Their spirits are returning with Christ according to verse 14. 3) Now that the previously deceased believer is reunited with his body, he will stand before the judgment seat of Christ "to receive the things done in his body," as II Corinthians 5:10 puts it. The judgment seat of Christ may also deal with unconfessed sin. It is not judged here, but it must be given account for, "whether it be good or bad" the verse says. 4) Now that all sin and rewards are dealt with and all barriers between the believer and Christ are out of the way, "so shall we ever be with the Lord" in sweet, harmonious fellowship, I Thessalonians 4:18.
With three heavens, it should not surprise us that there are also three places called hell in English. The bottomless pit (Greek "TARTARUS" and "ABYSSOS") is the hell where certain fallen angels are imprisoned right now, II Peter 2:4; Jude 6. These demons will be set loose on the earth during the Tribulation Period, Revelation 9. This is also where Satan will be chained during Christ's Kingdom, Revelation 20:1-3. This hell is only temporary. Its occupants will eventually spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.
Another place referred to as hell is also temporary. The Greek New Testament refers to it as "HADES" but we call it hell in English. When someone who does not belong to God dies, their soul leaves their body and goes immediately to this place of conscious torment. Jesus talked about a wicked rich man who found himself in this place immediately after death:
The rich man also stated, "I am tormented in this flame," Luke 16:24. This hell is place of fiery torment immediately after death, but it is not the final abode of the wicked. They are kept in this place until the final judgment at the end of all things. At that point, we read the following:
You understand the difference between jail and prison. The bad guy goes to a temporary place called jail until he is judged and then sent to prison. Jail feels like prison, looks like prison, smells like prison and has many similarities to prison. But jail is only a taste of what one will experience in prison after they are finally judged for their crimes. Likewise, an unsaved person who dies today will go to a temporary place called HADES/hell to await their final judgment. Their temporary hell feels like the Lake of Fire but it is only a preview until they are judged in the Great White Throne judgment mentioned in Revelation 20 quoted above.
To sum up things up:
1) There are two different judgments we have discussed. The Great White Throne judgment is only for those who are without Christ, where they will be judged for their sin and given the sentence of eternal torment in the Lake of Fire. The Judgment Seat of Christ is only for those who belong to Christ, where they will give account to Jesus for their service to Him.
2) The spirit of a person is separted from their body at death. It either goes to heaven, to be with the Lord Jesus, and to await the resurrection of the body and Christ's Judgment Seat. Or it goes to HADES/hell, to be separated from Christ and to await the Great White Throne judgment.
3) The doctrine of "soul sleep" twists into Paul's writings something he never intended. He uses sleep interchangeably with death not in a literal sense but symbolically. He is very clear that the spirits of departed Christians are right now conscious and with the Lord Jesus, waiting to be reunited with their bodies in the Rapture. If his intent was to teach soul sleep, he would have explained that more, rather than just use the word "sleep" as a metaphore for death. His intent in I Thessalonians 4 was to comfort Christians grieving over the death of brethren. So Paul uses "sleep" to remind the living that their departed loved ones are not gone for good.
I hope that answers your question. I have some lesson outlines on this subject and maybe a chart or two that I will try to post here when I can.
In Christ,
VM
"If you have time, can you clear this up for me? At death, do the unsaved go straight to... hell? judgment? "sleep"? And since Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, does that mean that believers instantly go to judgment? Or heaven first and judgment later? I have almost zero knowledge on this.Hi, Friend! Your child did the right thing in reading with suspiscion and discernment. We are to "believe not every spirit, but try the spirits," I John 4:1. We are to test any teaching against the Word of God, Acts 17:11. You should feel more confident that you are raising a child who is less likely to be taken in by false teaching if they continue in this path.
My child read a tract that they didn't think was right, which has brought these questions up."
Unfortunately there is a lot of false teaching on this subject. Many cult groups (Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Armstrongism), as well as many old school Pentecostals, teach the doctrine of "soul sleep." This is the false idea that upon death, both the righteous and the wicked enter a state of unconscious rest, the soul "sleeping" with the body in the grave, awaiting the final judgment at the end of all things. Most of these groups also teach "Annihilationism", the idea that in the final judgment, the wicked will be quickly consumed and cease all existence ("annihilated"). Thus, they have removed hell entirely from their doctrine, either after death or after Judgment Day. They have completely ignored what the Bible has to say about punishment for the wicked in the afterlife.
If you want to confuse the next JW at your door, you can call him or her a "Psychopannychist." It sounds like somebody who is almost psychotically panicking about something, which is an apt description of JW people. But psychopannychism is just the technical term for the doctrine of "soul sleep." That doesn't help answer your question, that is just for extra credit points.
This false doctrine, like many, comes when someone interprets literally what the Bible is saying in metaphore - referring to death as "sleep" in various verses. On the flip side of the coin, other false doctrines come when people interpret metaphorically what the Bible is saying literally. To avoid either error, a good rule of thumb to follow in Bible interpretation is, "When plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense (or end up with nonsense)." This just means that the Bible is to be taken literally unless it is clearly speaking symbolically based on the context. When Paul talks about departed Christians and the Rapture in places like I Corinthians 15 and I Thessalonians 4, the word "sleep" is symbolic of death and does not mean a literal sleep for the soul but is speaking of the empty body awaiting resurrection. It is clear in the passages that he uses the word symbolically and not literally.
Having said all that about false doctrine, let's start with some basics about Heaven and Hell. First of all, there are three heavens mentioned in the Bible. The first heaven is the atmosphere of the earth, also called the "firmament" in Genesis 1. This is the place where the "fowl of the heaven" fly. The second heaven is outer space, where the sun, moon and stars and all the "host of heaven" are. The third heaven is the dwelling place of God. Paul referred to it this way:
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.... How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. (II Corinthians 12:2, 4).
This third heaven is where a believer dying today will immediately go, "out of the body." Their spirit will be "with the Lord" as the verse you alluded to mentions, II Corinthians 5:8. "The Lord" is of course the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is seated at the right hand of God the Father in Heaven. So the believer's spirit will be received into heaven immediately upon physical death.
What about their judgment? Believers in Christ will never be judged for their sins. That judgment has already been meted out upon Christ when He hung on the cross in their place. Instead, believers will face the Judgment Seat of Christ to receive reward (or loss of reward) for their labors for Christ after their salvation. This judgment takes place sometime after the Rapture, when the believer's spirit and body have been reunited in resurrection.
Let's look at a quick timeline of events for someone in Christ who dies today. 1) Their spirit will depart from their body and go to heaven. 2) When Christ comes to the clouds in the Rapture, He will bring the spirits of departed Christians from heaven with Him. Their bodies will arise from the graves (though now glorified, resurrected bodies) and be rejoined to their spirits in the air. This is explained in I Thessalonians 4:13-18, where a key element is found in verse 14: "even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." Their bodies - and only their bodies - are "asleep." Their spirits are returning with Christ according to verse 14. 3) Now that the previously deceased believer is reunited with his body, he will stand before the judgment seat of Christ "to receive the things done in his body," as II Corinthians 5:10 puts it. The judgment seat of Christ may also deal with unconfessed sin. It is not judged here, but it must be given account for, "whether it be good or bad" the verse says. 4) Now that all sin and rewards are dealt with and all barriers between the believer and Christ are out of the way, "so shall we ever be with the Lord" in sweet, harmonious fellowship, I Thessalonians 4:18.
With three heavens, it should not surprise us that there are also three places called hell in English. The bottomless pit (Greek "TARTARUS" and "ABYSSOS") is the hell where certain fallen angels are imprisoned right now, II Peter 2:4; Jude 6. These demons will be set loose on the earth during the Tribulation Period, Revelation 9. This is also where Satan will be chained during Christ's Kingdom, Revelation 20:1-3. This hell is only temporary. Its occupants will eventually spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.
Another place referred to as hell is also temporary. The Greek New Testament refers to it as "HADES" but we call it hell in English. When someone who does not belong to God dies, their soul leaves their body and goes immediately to this place of conscious torment. Jesus talked about a wicked rich man who found himself in this place immediately after death:
"...the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments...." - Luke 16:22-23.
The rich man also stated, "I am tormented in this flame," Luke 16:24. This hell is place of fiery torment immediately after death, but it is not the final abode of the wicked. They are kept in this place until the final judgment at the end of all things. At that point, we read the following:
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:11-15.Notice from the text that those in HADES/hell are brought before God for judgment, and then HADES/hell is cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the third hell, the eternal place of punishment for the wicked, and it comes only AFTER the final judgment. This Lake of Fire is the hell that Jesus usually speaks of, when He talks about the final judgment and says things like "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," Matthew 25:30, or when He speaks of "everlasting hellfire" or the "the fire that never shall be quenced." (This Lake of Fire is GEHENNA, not HADES, in the Greek when Jesus talks about it in the Gospels.)
You understand the difference between jail and prison. The bad guy goes to a temporary place called jail until he is judged and then sent to prison. Jail feels like prison, looks like prison, smells like prison and has many similarities to prison. But jail is only a taste of what one will experience in prison after they are finally judged for their crimes. Likewise, an unsaved person who dies today will go to a temporary place called HADES/hell to await their final judgment. Their temporary hell feels like the Lake of Fire but it is only a preview until they are judged in the Great White Throne judgment mentioned in Revelation 20 quoted above.
To sum up things up:
1) There are two different judgments we have discussed. The Great White Throne judgment is only for those who are without Christ, where they will be judged for their sin and given the sentence of eternal torment in the Lake of Fire. The Judgment Seat of Christ is only for those who belong to Christ, where they will give account to Jesus for their service to Him.
2) The spirit of a person is separted from their body at death. It either goes to heaven, to be with the Lord Jesus, and to await the resurrection of the body and Christ's Judgment Seat. Or it goes to HADES/hell, to be separated from Christ and to await the Great White Throne judgment.
3) The doctrine of "soul sleep" twists into Paul's writings something he never intended. He uses sleep interchangeably with death not in a literal sense but symbolically. He is very clear that the spirits of departed Christians are right now conscious and with the Lord Jesus, waiting to be reunited with their bodies in the Rapture. If his intent was to teach soul sleep, he would have explained that more, rather than just use the word "sleep" as a metaphore for death. His intent in I Thessalonians 4 was to comfort Christians grieving over the death of brethren. So Paul uses "sleep" to remind the living that their departed loved ones are not gone for good.
I hope that answers your question. I have some lesson outlines on this subject and maybe a chart or two that I will try to post here when I can.
In Christ,
VM
Saturday, January 26, 2013
Random thoughts today
Do not try to rebuild your burnt bridges with the charred beams.
If you are down, then you are not out. If you are out, then you are not down. There is no such condition as both down and out.
You cannot use your inheritance to buy your father's love. (This, like each of my thoughts today, sounds like some kooky wise old man advice in a bad Kung Fu movie).
When you reach the moutain peak, remember the valley is not just behind you but also ahead.
If a tourist to Mexico does not drink the water, he really cannot say he has experienced the country.
VM
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